We are living in the world Aldous Huxley predicted: endless pleasures granted at our every whim...

Truth. Honestly drugs have ruined my life. I can't function well unless I'm high and if I'm too high i can't function at all.

billions of people are involved in a process

I combat it by living a minimalist lifestyle

This accomplishes absolutely nothing beyond providing you the peace of mind and opportunity to virtue signal. Not being involved in building the future is not a solution.

Drugs were far more accessible and widely used in the past. The choice to become reliant on them is personal, not societal. Especially considering in the past people were told certain drugs were safe, and today we know all drugs have inherent risk.

You're absolving your responsibility and this allows you to play the victim.

You could have made the exact same statement 100, 200, 300, 400 years ago. Progress and reduced suffering is the goal. The question is, why do you judge people as being entitled and self destructive, and what are you doing about it?

OP is trying to reach a degenerate corrupt homosexual generation.

It's more 1984 in the timeline.

That's honestly one of the best ways to do it.
Social media is hell, just filled with people trying to engagement bait and idiots who don't have any plans to actually DO anything.

Some examples:
That Twitter thread during the pandemic where the leftists talked about how they wouldn't work out because they were disabled (and the one this last month where someone said the left should buy guns, and people started making excuses)

The rise of conservative-populism in the last decade or two (where losers talk about how 'they' built civilizations while both ignoring every other culture AND ignoring that they personally didn't do shit and idolize people like Hitler who wasn't man enough to face justice)

Essentially the way I would best describe it is from the whole Luigi situation, where him killing that CEO didn't really do anything - it became a meme on social media and people talked about it for a second, and then started to fucking Stan him like a k-pop figure. No one went out rioted, no other CEOs have been shot let alone threatened, instead he became a stupid meme that everyone forgot about and another stupid Tumblr sexy man.

I can understand this comment, but then again the guys decision to live minimally helps build some sort of resilience and separation between him and society - which allows him to look at the situation for what it is.

However I do agree that one should be active in building the future, at the very least for themselves.

bitch moan and whine about 'muh society' while giving no solutions at all

Well at least you're playing your part well according to the book

describes doing literally nothing

That's honestly one of the best ways to do it.

filled with people trying to engagement bait and idiots who don't have any plans to actually DO anything

So to be clear you're saying withdrawing from society is the best option, and that people who have no plan are the problem?

the guys decision to live minimally helps build some sort of resilience and separation between him and society - which allows him to look at the situation for what it is.

Makes 0 logical sense; the ability to be objective is intellectual and can be done by anyone using reason as literally every philosophical movement has proven. Having "resilience and separation" makes you less aware of the actual nuances that are the problems in a society and makes you less capable of changing anything, while exclusively giving you the ability to feel better about yourself.

Huxley's world is something people supported, and that needs to be resolved in your approach. Pretending this situation was an accident or that society is incapable of seeing its own problems is just another way to play the victim.
You need to stop playing the victim and virtue signaling.

Social media is hell

That Twitter thread

The rise of conservative-populism

the whole Luigi situation

AKSHUALLY PEOPLE NEED TO RIOT TO FIX THINGS THATS MUH SOLUTION!!111

You're completely hopeless

OP is trying to virtue signal about how he's actually different when in reality he's doing the exact same things as the people he hates and is worse off by pretending to be better while he has no solutions

This

people suck thats why we have problems

people represent the cause and solution to problems

therefore everyone sucks, their solutions suck and their causes suck

but not me! I don't have any causes or solutions but I'm totes different because I paid attention in highschool english and you didn't you horrible human being

find meaning is my solution, do difficult things. for me its literature and minimalism

I'm not saying that we should go back to suffering or refusing to make progress. I mean that now, many people have gotten such comfortable lives without experiencing any struggle at all, and so lose the wish to continue to advance or even call for going back. Plus, when shit starts to hit the fan they react in some of the most self-destructive ways possible.

So for your first question, no I don't believe that withdrawing from society is the best option, just that living a 'less in-your-face' type of life is healthier and more productive, if you know what I mean?
For the second part I disagree with certain points and agree with others. Yes, separating yourself from a situation entirely is the same as doing nothing, and is cowardly. However, one must also be able to distance themselves from the chaos of actually being in the middle of everything in order to gain a better understanding of the situation as a whole and to see what the actual problems are. (For example, just using social media for your information is horrible since people just fight over shit that doesn't really matter).
If it appears that I'm trying to play the victim or virtue signal I can assure you that I am not going for that, rather I'm just trying to provide my perspective on what I think could be beneficial for others.

I didn't say that people need to riot to fix things, I was trying to use that as an example of how people sort of just talk shit or bicker with another side but don't actually do anything.

Yes, I am well aware that I am just talking on the internet and actually not doing anything right now, but I do think that it is worthwhile to at least discuss it. You all have different lives and perspectives than me.

i never called you horrible, nobody is "horrible" society is just not going in a good direction right now

damn almost quads too.

Finding meaning is the most accessible thing you can possibly do as a human. For men, it's raising a family. For women, it's raising a family.
The reality of being a human automatically gives you a massive range of "meanings" you can pursue. Pretending you need time or effort to find your meaning is pure nihilism and narcissism.

"Literature" (whatever that means) in the context of a difficult solution means writing things that resonate with people. A thorough understanding of society is required to do that and being an outsider is not the path to understanding society.

Minimalism is an empty word with purely modern connotation. All of human history is "minimal" compared to the "maximal lifestyle" that occurs today and only a few tens of thousands people in the world actually engage in.

Unless you're writing a treatise that the whole world will react to, you're complaining and doing nothing about it while having the gall to virtue signal that your inaction is better than other peoples' efforts to have functional lives in a society that is difficult to navigate.

For women: Brave New World
For men: 1984

How many people are starting families in the developed world anymore? divorce rates are sky-high, tinder use is sky high, and ease of access to the highest quality porn in human history is affecting the way we relate to people...

I dictate that people must struggle to have comfort

I dictate that people must react a certain way to hardship

just that living a 'less in-your-face' type of life is healthier and more productive, if you know what I mean?

No, that's a (no offense) moronic statement.

separating yourself from a situation entirely is the same as doing nothing, and is cowardly

Why are you dictating what's cowardly. That has nothing to do with anything and is another opportunity to virtue signal.
Separating yourself from a situation can have a huge range of meanings and outcomes depending on the situation.

When I see someone attribute Huxley's writing to being "predictive" when you clearly haven't researched him enough to know who his friends were all I see is someone who thinks their flawed and rhetoric-based assumptions are better than other peoples'.
What exactly makes your perspective worth anything?
The assumption you yourself make is that people can't be trusted to exist or participate in the realization of ideas, but you exclude yourself from that arbitrarily. Narcissism, virtue signaling.

I'm not doing anything but discussion is good

Discussion without solutions is masturbation. You have yet to give anything resembling a solution and the only suggestion you've given is seemingly supporting violence as the solution (a rhetoric that you are clearly being fed and didn't create yourself using logic.)

living a life where i reject modern technology is not "doing nothing" its why in countries like india and pakistan, which are behind in its development still see lasting marriages and healthy birthrates... the problem began with the industrial revolution and got worse with postmodernism, and has continued to get worse the more developed the west has become, we now have AI assistants and a bunch of other things that are getting in the way of the very meaning you assigned to life

How many people are starting families

Divorce is one outcome of having tried to start a family. That's more than you did at the baseline, regardless of the outcome.
Tinder use is one method of literally arriving at that outcome of having a family, it's just one (you) don't sanction.
Porn has nothing to do with starting a family, and if you correlate porn with "finding a meaning" you are using bad logic.

All you're doing is passing judgement in order to virtue signal.

tinder is a shallow way of hooking up, people dont usually go on there to start a family. and how do you know whether i have or havent tried to start a family? ive had many girlfriends all of whom left for one reason or another because their values have shifted away from commitment and towards things like promiscuity. and porn is immensely destructive on family, it trains the user to objectify others

and i judge nobody, by the way, I literally hold no negative feelings for people... just society.. the machine, the monster.. all i feel for people is love, I want whats best for them, i do not judge others in the slightest

living a life where i reject modern technology

A.) "minimalism" and rejecting technology are not synonymous.
B.) You are obviously not rejecting technology

Arranged marriage is the norm in India. India also has the highest rates of rape in the world and one of the largest high tech industry bases in the world. Nothing you said is true.

the problem began with the industrial revolution and got worse with postmodernism

If that is true, you would be able to formulate an actionable solution to the issue with no problem. But it isn't that simple, and you still don't have anything close to a solution.

the very meaning you assigned to life

The idea that you can "pick your meaning" is purely a result of the exact kind of luxury you abhor. Everyone has a meaning they do not control, like having children and moving humanity forward with progress; by creating solutions to problems.

If you have things "getting in the way" of your "meaning," those obstacles are your meaning.

People have become impatient, entitled and weak.

i judge nobody

virtue signaling

yeah i find it very meaningful to reject modern technology. i never claimed to reject all technology. like i said i dont own a smartphone and my pc essentially functions like windows XP.. thats my way to being more present and in the world, and it works.. and why is arranged marriage the norm in India? its because the country is still largely traditional, we also used to practice arranged marriage too before our values shifted. and i absolutely agree that you cant pick your meaning "the heat wants what the heart wants"

i have also become impatient, entitled and weak, and i can say such things without judgement.. its like saying someone is sick, thats not a judgement, its an observaton

people dont usually go on there to start a family

Tinder use is one method of literally arriving at that outcome of having a family

Notice how both things are true. ALmost as if there is nuance in real world situations.

Porn has always existed and the real issue is behavior and compulsion. More nuance.

The real issue you're experiencing is seeing the world in oversimplified terms, a dynamic that is dictated by your preconceptions and personal experience.
Where are your solutions to your own personal issues? You've decided to talk about them but yet again all you're doing is complaining without reflecting on what might fix the situation. If you have no solutions to personal issues you will never have solutions to larger issues.

im doing more than you are by changing the way I live... I dont own a smartphone, my pc is doesnt allow me to do much.. i spend a lot of my time reading, sometimes i take cold showers wim hof style, ive planned to relocate to asia... thats more than most people are doing..

The point is someone 150 years ago using a tractor-drawn hoe wasn't a worse person than someone tilling a field by hand. One used the best cutting edge tech available and drew ire from the other workers who had to spend all day breaking their backs to do the same work.
The only reason you think this way is because you are the person in question, and you hold yourself in a different regard than those who you have passed judgement on.

Saying you're more true to "meaning" because you don't use something others use is narcissism and has nothing to do with reality.

im doing more than you are

The fact you're willing to say this while literally knowing nothing about me or my life is full acknowledgement that this entire exercise is about propping up your self-image.

Victim complex, narcissism, virtue signaling.
Reading, taking showers and moving your home are not solutions to any real problem that exists in our world.

Absolutely

nobody is a "worse person" just a lazier person maybe... but that doesnt make them a bad person, just someone who has less discipline. if saying that makes me a narcissist so be it, at least im happy!

if youre doing difficult things then all the more power to you my friend. if you are doing difficult things youre the exactly the kind of person im NOT talking about

So what is your argument for claiming you are in a position to solve problems while others are not simply because you pursue vanity projects that do not affect the world in any way whatsoever.

Why does your choice to take cold showers have a positive impact on the world while someone going on a tinder date or watching porn has a negative impact?
You continue to not have an answer because formulating an answer requires you to have a solution.

The issue is that you assume other people aren't doing difficult things because you judge certain behaviors as easy. But you still have no idea what the solutions to any real world problems are, so you cannot logically have a value system to judge any kind of action or behavior.

I don't think Huxley delineates human progress from its nature.
He sort of views them as one in Brave New World. That it's almost an "evolutionary" process that humans domesticate themselves in a self-defeating way.
Because our nature demands easier, faster, and more pleasurable. I think his exploration of the topic shows that some people can overcome that but you inevitably find yourself trapped by the ignorance of the collective regardless.
That's what I took away from him.

well i do know that i always feel a lot better after my showers than after i jerk off to porn. after the shower its a sense of "holy shit, wow, i can do that! amazing! im tougher than i thought!" after porn my soul dies a little, i think we can all relate to that.. thats a feeling i wish on everyone so i teach by example.. its why wim hof has a following... if what i do doesnt make a difference then wim hof isnt making a difference either... but this philspphy of "doing hard things" isnt exclusive to wim hof, its the basis of many spiritual traditions. is the ascetic side of buddhas middle path... its exposure therapy, its baptism.. i cant make you do it, so i do it myself because i believe in it.. it makes my existence feel worthwhile, i wish that for everyone

why do you judge that i dont have any solutions to real world issues? you know as little about me as i do you

Brother you can't just conflate minimalism and ascetism in order to make logical points. Yes, I clearly am familiar with the universal notion across beliefs that suffering can be perceived as necessary.
You're being dishonest about the actual mechanism of suffering that exists in these respective belief systems-- buddhism uses suffering in respect to darmic principles. Jesus' suffering was not a rulebook for average experience, it was a specific outcome that serves as a lesson with such lessons being the method through with judeo-christianty communicates all of its tenets.

It's absolutely incorrect to say people must suffer or have a baseline degree of suffering to exist, be happy, or achieve "meaning" as you said. None of those belief systems you indirectly reference think that way either, they are again more nuanced.

I think it would do you some good to realize that there are more people with real concerns and real wisdom out there than you think, and that perhaps this notion of being exclusively aware and that pursuing personal goals translates to being a benefit to society is misplaced.
Many of the ideas you cite you do not understand as well as you think, and people have navigated the same problems as you and achieved objectively better solutions. Have the dignity to realize that if you are leaning on assumptions you are not above being logically wrong.

I've constantly asked from my very first post in this thread to this one for any kind of real world solution to society's actual problems. What I got in response to that query was your personal choices. You deciding to read or take cold showers is not benefitting anyone but yourself.
Hence the realization of narcissism. What I'm asking is a simple question-- your inability to answer it and readiness to relate unrelated points in its stead are extremely telling. Therefore I am not judging anyone, I'm describing your actions in a simple logical procedure.

fuck me...and because they are going so fast they absolutely cannot detect how utterly juxtapose paradoxically unapsorbant they are, will deny it, and when you give them an opportunity genuine to walk back wards....stop and stare at you with a smile on their face......then keep going and knowingly, openinly display their want to ignore your ass while still desperately using your attention

im sorry i didnt perfectly use the correct categorisations for you and said "minimalism" when maybe what im doing is "ascetism" or whatever. it doesnt matter, my point stands: do hard things, simplify your life, thats how i live my life and i feel its the way forward. you can disagree with me, but what i do makes me feel hopeful, i know that the way the majority lives is not in alignment with my own values.. if you want to continue living the way you do, with smartphones, super high quality porn and warm showers, so be it.. but i view all of that as luxuries that weve become accustomed to and thats weve become convinced we cant live without. i want a tougher mindset than that.... i dont want to eat up the notion i need a smartphone, fuck that.. we lived for a long time without it and i believe that the ease technology has brought has not outweighed the cost. and im constantly questioning myself precisely because i know im not above being logically wrong.. but ive come to realise eventually you need to settle on an ideology, and this is the one ive settled on, because i need to pick one, for a sense of order and direction, or else ill just be questioning my every thought forever.

utterly juxtapose paradoxically unapsorbant

I had not realized all the dragons around me go silent as I fakely gleefully told the shakey jew next to me trying to trot with his tiger clothes where to place his hands to sink his toy into the pancreas and how to control his victims life with a twist and a pull....and then HE gleefully told me oh thanks for the good advice!!!

now that is a crazy insane motherfucking motherfucker

i was just playing jackal.....but no one else knew that

nta but what does that symbol represent? just curious geniunely it looks pretty cool

I dont have to remember that much and can do it faster

I love candy. I will probably only dote on it so it can be locked in as a memory. Youre all very sweet.

i dont know if it was you or someone else but someone said that problems are fixed when you fix your own problems. me living the way i do is my contribution.. whole movements can start by individuals making lifestyle changes, whole revolutions can come about from a simple conversation even

I said I was very proud

oh lookit that

a very merry birthday.... to me

ive come to realise eventually you need to settle on an ideology

An ideology is is a set of answers to questions you assume to be correct.
That's why I said;

Have the dignity to realize that if you are leaning on assumptions you are not above being logically wrong.

...because I understand that you are applying an ideology. Ideology exist for one simple reason; so that you don't have to do the work of navigating difficult questions using logic knowledge and wisdom and can rely on a set of ideals that you can't actually know to be right but you assume are right.

I obviously understand what you're saying and your attitude. Ideology is fine as an option but you should be able to think outside of it if necessary otherwise you will put yourself in the wrong unknowingly.
If you have the awareness to reply to what I'm putting forward and not repeat your dogma to me this conversation will lead to progress in some form.

whole movements can start by individuals making lifestyle changes

When this happens, it is because a larger and more organized idea is guiding that lifestyle change, and those changes become broader changes as part of an organized and systematic plan. Society does not simply reorganize randomly, it always follows prescribed dynamics that humans have to first envision and spread.

Hence the topic of the thread. Books like Huxley's were not foretelling our present, they were manuscripts to inspire our societies; all exchange of ideas in the intelligentsia class has always had this role in society as many very wise people have reiterated.

You dont think Im able to take on anomalous information outside my ideology? infact the reason i consider my ideology so refined is because ive spent many years learning how wrong i was before, im open to learnign again, i actually want to be proven wrong, but like i said, for the sake of not going crazy i need a dogma, i need meaning and this is my meaning which others agree with. i believe Huxley wrote about exactly what im talking about... he inspired me to be more like John the Savage.

the very reason i read (like John) and live in ways that a hard (like John) and reject modern comfort (like John) is because ive digested the message of the novel, its the same message other writers of his kind were tryign to tell, even Steinbeck in Grapes was talking about the value of moving away from the machine to find a simpler life

correct. but I only put down my brain in the moment so I can see if I agree with you and then you can display your passion in a debate so I can offer my trust instead of have it taken. It may be an ideology....but it is what I personally hold dear....and what is important to ME

problems are fixed when you fix your own problems

I have said things like that, the issue here is; by exploring the issues that prevent wisdom and logic from being applied fairly to your own life you learn how to navigate the bigger issues. Conversely, those larger issues need to be analyzed and solved in order for you to understand exactly in what ways your own life reflects those issues.

Nobody thinks hermeticism should lead to the archetypical cave dweller. Yet without logic that is the outcome of application of the ideology of hermeticism.

holy shit a soothesayer

salutations physician

and there go the legs, like clockwerk I swear to fuck

All i can do is learn and try as i go along. i may be wrong about what i think will help (obviously) but I sincerely believe in what i do... i haven't really been convinced out of it, i feel no more likely to purchase a smartphone now than i did before. I already owned a smartphone and just felt like "I can do better" I never used to take cold showers and now every time I have one I feel like I am doing something spiritual... I didnt pluck these ideas out of my ass, they came from introspection and studying philosophy, spirituality and the great writers

maybe someone believes im only contributing if im a paramedic, which is valuable, but we all find meaning in our unique ways, a paramedic is contributing, and so am i, i have a nice thats been formed from years of study and thought. its a principle, i live a principled life like the monks do. monks like according to principle and discipline as do i

niche*

Writers of any time are the emotional representatives of that time.
If you think about the upward trend of technological sophistication as a exponential curve, there is a slope to that curve where humans can balance positive outcomes for health and fulfillment with technological mastery. These authors you cite serve as course-corrections as people become concerned the rate of progress has exceeded or dipped below its expected increase.

Industrialization's negative effects are tangible, but the positive are as well. The question is was it worth it; and if we want to answer that question we need to delve into much more nuanced topics that have nothing to do with personal choice.
Knowing the limits of technology is a question humans have clearly been grappling with since before we had recorded history. There are very good reasons why our past contains so much wisdom that is still useful. Technology has always been a double edged sword, and at times literally.
Nothing has changed.

yes all things are a double edged sword, all stages of evolution have their ups and downs. the industrial revolution has its ups and downs, religion had its benefits and detriments.. dont think im not aware of that because i am.. thats why i try to find balance... i dont live without tech, i just live with lesser tech, i dont always have cold showers, just now and then. i dont think arranged marriage is always right, obviously love is important. its about balance

honestly i wish i knew what point people were trying to make in this thread... ive found meaning and its seems people have tried to convince me that my thought process in valueless... but i guess all greats are met with ridicule before their ideas are just accepted as fact... was i suppsoed to come away from this ready to buy the latest iPhone? was i supposed to come away vowing only to watch porn and enjoy a hot bath every day? because i just think thats ridiculous...

Monks do not live according to just any principle or discipline. They are involved in divine principles based on thousands of years of wisdom and generational experiences. Definitely not one they are personally involved in defining.

I will ask the question again; what are your solutions to our civilization's very urgent problems you talked about? None of your choices or the ideology behind it are solutions.

endless pleasures granted at our every whim

Iunno what kind of wealthy oil baron you are but most people are far from experiencing "endless pleasures"

Endless pleasures fucking endless pleasures gtfo here with that shit. I'd settle for a comfy chair and for my back to not hurt all the time and for less meth-addicted customers at work.

Monks do not live according to just any principle or discipline. They are involved in divine principles based on thousands of years of wisdom and generational experiences. Definitely not one they are personally involved in defining.

And my ideology draws upon thousands of years of wisdom as well but personally i pick and choose. I meditate like the monks, cold showers are akin to what ascetics have been doing for centuries its all a part of the idea of denying yourself... again, i didnt pluck this out of my ass it came from intense studying.

I will ask the question again; what are your solutions to our civilization's very urgent problems you talked about?

What are yours?

And why do you refuse to see the validity of my own way, drawing upon the works of Huxley, the Gospels, Buddhist doctrine, modern thinkers like Wim Hof... Ive done my homework and you treat me like a schizo who doesnt know what I'm talking about, and my actions are purposeless... if my lifestyle feels meaningful to me then it IS meaningful... Other people also clearly are on the same page as me... I hear people complain about modern life constantly, this is my proposed way, follow it or dont. You havent given me anything better

you have hot water and a smartphone probably, you have become accustomed to your good fortune

And why do you refuse to see the validity of my own way

I never commented on its validity. It has no bearing on the topic. That's why it's presenting as narcissism-- the very simple question I asked did not require an explanation of your dogma. Continuing to obsess over my perception of it is why I said there is clearly a victim mindset at work.

What are yours?

Before that, why don't I offer an example of a historic answer to the exact question.

The Order of the Quest

Are you familiar with it?

It's not precise in its interpretation, but it can be applied precisely as it pertains to answer this question.
Now instead of just proving my point you will have the common tools to also navigate this problem as many people have.