If the right wants smaller government, then why are abortions banned?

As well as tax the rich and redistribute money to the poor.

Glad we could understand each other.

Hopefully the fetus can practice its 2nd Amendment rights.

If it doesnt have a SSN, does is it even American?

According to Donald Trump no because if it's born in America it's not American.
Why do fetuses not have nationalities if they're people?

You're not. If you examine the dna from a fetus inside a woman, is it going to be dna that more aligns with a human, or dna that aligns more with some other animal?

When is a dog issued a social security number? We can both agree dogs are living creatures, no?

Bait, but no, taxation is not an inherent role of government. That is in fact one of the popular reasons behind the start of the american revolution

DNA is not alive.
Cum has DNA.

Ok, well do non organic objects have dna? Rocks, dirt, sand, metal, etc?
Dna in itself is not alive, it is a bunch of acids. Dna however, is required for life

When is a dog issued a social security number? We can both agree dogs are living creatures, no?

I noticed you didnt answer either of my questions...

Because they're retarded. I'd love to see Muzzies, Chinese, and Republicans give up the "reproduce like rats" mentality

A fetus isn't alive.
If mom died it dies.

I notice you didn't answer mine. If your argument that a fetus isn't alive is predicated on the belief that you need a social security number or insurance to be alive, then most creatures on earth arent alive.

An elderly person on life support would also die if they were unplugged. But then, you would also need to be alive in the first place to die.

Are you guys done now?

An elderly person is not a fetus.
And life support isnt a human female.

I notice you didn't answer mine. If your argument that a fetus isn't alive is predicated on the belief that you need a social security number or insurance to be alive, then most creatures on earth arent alive

I never said it wasnt alive. I asked when is it issued a ssn? A key thing to be US citizen and protection of the constitution as donny doesnt believe in birthright citizenship and that non citizens dont have rights. I also asked can it get life insurance or health insurance for that matter?

Because they are pro-life and a bigot.

What distinguishes an elderly individual on life support and a fetus in utero to you?

I never said it wasnt alive

Well then what are you arguing? Are you just randomly trying to ask me to explain government operations and insurance to you in a discussion about abortion?

donny doesnt believe in birthright citizenship and that non citizens dont have rights

Is that relevant here?

Easy,
One is born and one is not.

Well then what are you arguing? Are you just randomly trying to ask me to explain government operations and insurance to you in a discussion about abortion?

Is that relevant here?

So then you cant say when a fetus is issued a ssn and thus protections of the constitution?

Alright, so is a fetus at, say, 37 weeks of gestation alive to you, having not been born yet? Pic related.

So then you cant say when a fetus is issued a ssn

They aren't.

and thus protections of the constitution?

The us government, in theory, doesn't grant rights, it observes them.

inb4 illegal immigrant rant

It's still a crime to murder non citizens, I'm not going to debate immigration with you. I didn't even want to debate this tbh

they dont have a ssn

Ah so then they citizens? And the constitution doesnt apply to them? So then they dont have rights?

*they arent citizens

Can it survive without the mother's body?

I already addressed this anon. Read the post.

Can an elderly individual on life support survive without?

An elderly person isn't in a womb.
And they also have the decision to go off life support.
Fetuses aren't cognizant only mothers are so they make the decision.

So non citizens have rights? Interesting

An elderly person isn't in a womb

Sure, but they, like a fetus, cannot survive on their own without assistance from a third party, agreed? Your argument that you just tried to make, as I understand it, is that a fetus is not alive if it isn't viable outside the womb (previously it's not alive if it hasn't been born). My counter argument is that an elderly person who is on life support is not viable independent from said life support, so by your own logic, they should not be considered alive.

And they also have the decision to go off life support.

Not necessarily. Oftentimes people on life support are in comas, pumped up on so much morphine they might as well be in a coma, or other such scenarios. Older people are a good example because it's much more common.

I'm not arguing this, that isn't the topic of debate. Nice try though lol

If that's true then why is a miscarriage not manslaughter?

I'm not arguing this, that isn't the topic of debate. Nice try though lol

That's because you lost the argument, lol. Sorry a fetus isnt protected by the constitution (e.g., life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness). So can a fetus get health insurance? Or life insurance? You things you get for yourself and children m

Because they don't really want "smaller government" they want more concentrated power

Because then you're criminalizing medical complications. Granted, there are situations where spousal abuse occurs, leading to miscarriage, but that's already illegal, and I believe also treated as murder in some jurisdictions.

We're having two different arguments anon. I already addressed this. I'm done responding to this point.

the constitution (e.g., life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness)

That's the declaration of independence, not the constitution

We're having two different arguments anon. I already addressed this. I'm done responding to this point.

the constitution (e.g., life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness)

That's the declaration of independence, not the constitution

So the DoI doesnt apply to the fetus? How come they cant be insured?

It's not a question of medicine but of interpretation of what a person is in the eyes of the law.
If a fetus exits a woman's body, via abortion or miscarriage, then it's dead.
When it's abortion, it's murder.
But when it's miscarriage, it's not manslaughter?
Why is a fetus only human in certain contexts if the woman decides to remove it, but not in others when the fetus leaves?
Did the fetus consciously "decide" to commit suicide? If course not because it isn't sentient and is therefore not alive in the legal or medical definition of a "person".

But when it's miscarriage, it's not manslaughter?

Again, medical complications. That'd be similar to classifying a lethal heart attack as suicide. They can be induced, which is where legal complications arise, but would you otherwise consider it suicide?

Why is a fetus only human in certain contexts if the woman decides to remove it, but not in others when the fetus leaves?

It's not. You should talk to women who've had miscarriages sometime, you might learn something about that

So if the fetus is developmentally defected why does the mother not have the choice to abort it in states that ban it?
Is it just for the mother to be medically harmed?

Do you have the right to kill anyone you see out on a walk with developmental defects?

Is it just for the mother to be medically harmed?

Why would that ever be the case, just to cause harm to a patient?

Big government is inherently immoral. Abortion is inherently immoral. The baseline motivator is morality, not small government. If government was inherently moral, we would be fine with big government.

Does a fetus have rights?

There are absolutely pregnancy complications that threaten the mother's life and require an abortion.

Ectopic pregnancy

Early onset eclampsia

HELLP syndrome

Sepsis

Placental abruption

Cancers

Paripartum cardiomyopathy

In fact there are women who have suffered personal injuries because of draconian "pro-life" policies.
You should familiarize yourself with such victims and ask them what they think about your perspective, you might learn something.

The same reason why a small government doesn't allow murder.

moral

What about donny is moral?

he stole from his own charity

he cheated on his wife

he sexually assaulted women

tax fraud

There are absolutely pregnancy complications that threaten the mother's life

I didn't say there weren't, I challenged the idea that abortions are prohibited on the basis of harming the mother by factors that may or may not be out of her control.
This is a minority of abortion cases, however. Most of them occur for the sake of convenience.

Anyway, with that said, I think I'm done having this argument that I didn't really want to be a part of. I appreciate you being relatively cordial, I've seen a lot of people being ehh..... way overly hostile with these discussions. I don't expect to change your mind on this, and truth be told, I didn't really care to to begin with, but I hope you think over this conversation a bit. I recommend looking up some anti abortion stances on youtube or wherever and getting a better understanding on whete these people are coming from, preferably ignoring the idiots who just want to "own the libs" in favor of those who can more eloquently make their points

I didn't say there weren't, I challenged the idea that abortions are prohibited on the basis of harming the mother by factors that may or may not be out of her control

So basically your feelings? Good one...

My final point of contention is that the fact medically necessary abortions just begs the questions of why states ban it.
When we examine the actual pro-life policies implemented, we see a very different picture where women medically suffer, have to cross state lines to get healthcare, and are even prosecuted for it.
Where is the line drawn between clinical signification and personal liberty? If a mother has to carry and birth the fetus, why should the state decide the merit of what she can do to her own body?
And how is death of criminal liability justice? When both punish the mother's health and freedom.
I think it's less about morality, and more about controllong women.

It's your feelings that they are.

Like I said, I recommend you all look up anti abortion personalities online. If not to learn from them, at the very least to learn how to actually counter them

My final point of contention is that the fact medically necessary abortions just begs the questions of why states ban it.

Again, that is a large minority of cases, but I will concede that is a fair point to end on in itself. I recommend you research your opposition again, and maybe you might find your answers.
Have a good evening anon

My counter to this that abortion personalities online are not authorities in either medicine or policy.
These groups tend to be religiously biased and morality alone should not determine or adjudicated the laws that a state or nation ratifies.
In fact the constitution clearly state a separation of church and state. So in the premise of this alone, the church can't coerce the state in enforcing laws that infringe on the rights of women in the name of religious morality and arguments that support pro-life evangelical views.
It's unconstitutional.